Mach 2.0 supercruise and 60,000ft altitude!

[K-9]

Please see the short article below which has a few words given in an officially authorized interview with Maj Garland, an F/A-22 Raptor pilot. Note how he states that the Raptor can supercruise at Mach 2.0 at 60,000ft. Afterall he should know - he does it every day for a living.

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news_article.php?id=217

Sep. 1) -- The world's most advanced warplane has been cloaked in secrecy until now. The F-22 Raptor has been tested in the skies over southern Nevada to prepare for wars of the future. The Raptor pilots say that when that day finally comes, the F-22 will live up to it's billing as the most dominant warplane ever conceived.
It's like a young Mike Tyson with wings -- the biggest, baddest bully on the block. The F-22 Raptor is already flying higher, faster, farther, and packing more firepower than any fighter plane ever conceived. It is stealthy like an F-117, fast like an F-16, packs a punch like an F-15, but is far superior to all of those, and everything else in the sky.
Major Robert Garland, an F-22 Raptor pilot, says, "This is the big boy, not only on the block but on the entire planet." Major Garland is in the enviable position of being one of the first Air Force pilots to get behind the controls of the Raptor.
Seven of the warplanes are based at Nellis. Since the first arrived last year, little has been said about how the program is progressing. The base commander gave his okay for a status report, which allowed the people who know the Raptor best to almost gush about its capabilities, even those still loyal to the F-15.
"F-15 was great. The Raptor is better. It's not just better; it's a whole new dimension. Once you get to compete with it, fight with it, it just isn't fair. And that's the way it should be," said Major Garland
Nellis officials confirm that during a recent test maneuver over the Nevada desert, the Raptor faced four enemy aircraft, F-15s or F-16s flown by mock aggressors. The Raptor not only took out all four of the others, it took them all out twice without breaking a sweat. The pilots say the F-22 will not only provide total dominance in the air, its technical marvels will allow for total dominance of the entire battle space -- air, ground, ocean, whatever.
At 60,000 feet, it flies higher than any other warplane, can zip along at Mach 2 without an afterburner -- meaning it's efficient so it can stay aloft longer. It's so maneuverable it can fire its missiles while upside down, and it's so stealthy that opponents will likely never see it coming-- until it's too late.
Maj. Robert Garland continued, "We're going so high, so fast, you can't see us coming. If you're lucky and see us, bam, something hits you and you don't have to worry anymore."
The Raptor program will be based at Nellis until it becomes operational. At that point, the program will be moved to Virginia. Until then though, the Raptor's sonic booms will reverberate throughout the Nellis ranges -- a sound that's a source of pride for the base.
"We dominate everything today and we expect to dominate everything well into the next decade," concluded Major Garland.
The Air Force has eight F-22 Raptors. Seven are at Nellis. One is at Edwards Air Force Base in California. Nellis expects to be home to as many as 17 Raptors in the future.

[robban75]

Hopefully I wont offend anyone with this reply, but whenever I see a TV show made in the U.S about U.S fighters, I divide everything that is said with 2, and then the outcome might still be much more than reality. I can't help but to do the same thing with this report, that Robert Garland sound like a used cars salesman. Desperate to sell an oversized, overprised airplane to the American taxpayer.
It's an airplane, plain and simple it wont be going around the moon any time soon, and it will never do joint excercises flying alonside X-wings and Tie-fighters.
It will be superior to the current generation fighters for sure, aswell as 2:nd gen fighters usually flown by 3:rd world countries, but when compared to fighters of the same generation, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen and so on, it will certainly have to use all of its magical qualities if it hopes to come out on top. It is absolutely possible as it is certainly better than the above mentioned, but it will certainly not be a walk in the park.

Cheers!

[K-9]

Maj. Garland is certainly not Shakespeare. I am not sure that his short interview was given as part of a TV show. Clearly there are official pronouncements made by LM through officially authorized channels. There are also authorized interviews that pilots give to the press. These carry weight. Then on the other hand there is mere internet chat. Hearsay gossip about a friend who knows a friend who said... Or again there are TV shows where a journalist is given access to an Airbase and presents an exciting program.

The top supercruise speed of the F/A-22 is a legitimate subject for conjecture. Officially the figure stands at Mach 1.58 but then that was achieved in 1991 and represents only 80 per cent throttle. This might be the most fuel-efficient speed. However, it is a fairly open secret that the F/A-22 can attain much higher speeds without resorting to its afterburner. Last year LM speaking through Aviation Week gave out the figure of Mach 1.68 and since then there have been rumours of even higher speeds nudging Mach 2.0. If the above interview with Maj. Garland is credible, and I don't see why it shouldn't be, it is the first confirmation of Mach 2.0 supercruise. In the world of fighter technology that is a considerable milestone.

[Edited by K-9 on 6th September 2004 at 09:02]

[avon1944]

> robban75 <
> whenever I see a TV show made in the U.S about U.S fighters, I divide <
> everything that is said with 2, and then the outcome might still be <
> much more than reality <
I would like an example of information about American weapon systems or military where dividing by two is close to accurate when releast by a reputabble source such as Aviation Week & Space Technology Magazine, Armor Magaine, US Naval Proceedings, Submarine Review, etc.. There are millions of sources in the USA and many people in "high places" say things and they have no idea of what they are talking about. To me that is as good as gossip! A valid source of military information would not be off by a significant amount.

> Desperate to sell an oversized, overprised airplane to the American taxpayer. <
The F-22's biggest opponent are those holding budget strings. They determine what to do based on what they are told. Sometimes they are correct about what they say but when the weapon system gets into combat, it performs as well as the original designers had hoped for. The F-14, F-15, M-1 Abrams, M-2/3 Bradley IFV, etc., the GAO complained about these programs because they over ran their budgets. Look at their combat records.
The American taxpayer has ALWAYS been willing to spend money to save or insure life. How many other countries other than the USA spend over a million dollars per year, every year to locate those missing in combat in previous conflicts?

> when compared to fighters of the same generation, Eurofighter, Rafale, <
> Gripen and so on, it will certainly have to use all of its magical <
> qualities if it hopes to come out on top <
The European Air Force officials look upon the F-22 as the standard to compare their aircraft to! All of them admit their aircraft will hold its own in air superiority but none, challenge the claim of the USAF that the F-22 is an "air dominance" fighter!

> It is absolutely possible as it is certainly better than the above mentioned <
All the testing so far has indicated that it exceeds the specs, which is open information.

> it will certainly not be a walk in the park <
No and all these "bells, buttons and, whistles will cost the taxpayer a lot of money. The F-22 will have a "greater margin" over the aircraft that are out or being developed, than the F-15 did when it was introduced!! Look at the kill record of the F-15..... no losses and over 100 kills!!!


> K-9 <
> it is the first confirmation of Mach 2.0 supercruise. In the world of <
> fighter technology that is a considerable milestone. <
While yes itcan hit Mach 2.0 in supercruise it can not sustain it. The wing skin is made of a material named "BMI." The heat of air friction exceeds what the BMI can handle and not be damaged. The USAF gave up Mach 0.2 in top speed and 0.1 in cruise speed because BMI is a better material than the material it replaced and it is far cheaper to make and manufacture.

Adrian

[K-9]

Avon 1944

Many thanks Avon for your response. So it seems that the supercruise speed is limited only by air friction heating on the leading edge. That in itself is interesting. Perhaps the higher supercruise speeds can only be reached or sustained at the very highest of altitudes where the air is thinner?

[djelfa]

If it can supercruise at Mach 2, can we assume a maximum speed of approaching/exceeding Mach 3?

[K-9]

No. I think is the short answer to that one. This old chestnut is one where I have had my own fingers burnt before - ouch! The air-intakes are the wrong shape or something. Anyway there is a long term research program to radically improve military aero-engines which goes under the acronym IHPTET which has three phases and will eventually become changed into another acronym - VAATE the goal of which is to provide an F15 sized aircraft with sustained Mach 3 flight. I don't think it will happen any time soon.