America's planes

[bradusa_2003]

I would agree with the SAM theory before a mig-25 the mig-25 wasnt very manuverable and the weapons systems were very accurate they were more designed to take down bombers and I think cruise missle I doubt it would out manuever or be able to shoot down an F-18 no matter who was flying it. It just blows my mind to see everyone patting the soviet and russian aircraft builders on the back all the time the only good planes they have I would even compare to western aircraft are the flankers and they are about even with our F-15's and F-14's which are about 30 years old so I doubt a 1950's design could shoot down anything designed in the early 80's.

[SchlagRIO]

Originally posted by bradusa_2003
I would agree with the SAM theory before a mig-25 the mig-25 wasnt very manuverable and the weapons systems were very accurate they were more designed to take down bombers and I think cruise missle I doubt it would out manuever or be able to shoot down an F-18 no matter who was flying it.......I doubt a 1950's design could shoot down anything designed in the early 80's.

As aerial combat has proven countless times, you don't need to have a better pilot or aircraft to win an engagement; all you have to be is unseen.

[bradusa_2003]

good point but very wrong in the case of a mig-25 they light up a radar screen like a neon light along with many other russian planes since they havent had a new plane in acually production since the su-30 I think only a few in service in their aircforce but mostly for other countries again I dont count Su-35/Su37 since they arent flying in any serious numbers and unlikely will be for years. With US AWACS and the newer more modern radars on th f-18 its seems highly unlogical that this would happen.

[SchlagRIO]

However unlikely you might think it would have been, stuff like this happens. If you've ever seen any accounts of how busy the airspace was over Iraq the first night, you wouldn't be surprised. If I remember correctly, the initial reports of a SAM shoot-down were disproven after it was found there were no SAM emplacements within range of the coordinates where CAPT Speicher was hit. There were, however, well documented reports of a MIG-25 that flew unscathed through the area that his division of F-18s were flying.

Read the book, No One Left Behind: The Scott Speicher Story.

It's good.

[bradusa_2003]

well this argument could go on forever I guess so there isnt any point in continuing it. I have read some of the book I havent read it all more or less just glanced at it, your correct its does seem like its a good book although I just caution on believing some conspiracy theories some people have if you remember there were several after 9-11 all were proven false. Yes there was alot of air traffic but the US military has some of the best air traffic controllers in the world so I still believe its unlikely a mig-25 pass through without being noticed I have heard a story of 1 or 2 out running some f-18's but that is it I still and always will believe if he was shot down and I am not ruling out a malfunction of somekind taking the F-18 out. A mig-25 in the hands of a good russian pilot admittedly by several that flew it I have read in books stated the aircraft was probably overatted and the MIG-31 which replaced it was much better suited for the task. Considering the combat record of the Iraqi airforce pilots its doubtfull they could have accomplished it. Also keep in mind they barried all of them in the sand during the second gulf war (mig-25's).

[SchlagRIO]

bradusa_2003
well this argument could go on forever I guess so there isnt any point in continuing it. I have read some of the book I havent read it all more or less just glanced at it, your correct its does seem like its a good book

Quit arguing with me if you're not familiar with the case. Read the book.

bradusa_2003
although I just caution on believing some conspiracy theories some people have if you remember there were several after 9-11 all were proven false.

It's not conspiracy theories, it's investigative journalism by a well-respected print journalist. Not some internet wack job. And it's all based on intelligence and data from military records, and analyzed by people who were there or know what they're talking about.

bradusa_2003
Yes there was alot of air traffic but the US military has some of the best air traffic controllers in the world so I still believe its unlikely a mig-25 pass through without being noticed I have heard a story of 1 or 2 out running some f-18's but that is it

I didn't say the MIG was unnoticed, I said it was unseen. If you have radar on a contact but are not cleared to fire because of confusion on the part of the controllers as to what that contact is, that gives a distinct advantage to the enemy. Especially if he SEES you first. Eyes-on. If Speicher had seen him first he could shoot without clearance from the controller. It's called a VID or visual ID.

bradusa_2003
I still and always will believe if he was shot down and I am not ruling out a malfunction of somekind taking the F-18 out.

The navy and everyone else involved in investigating this incident have ruled out mechanical malfunction of the F-18, so I'm thinking you can too.

bradusa_2003
Considering the combat record of the Iraqi airforce pilots its doubtfull they could have accomplished it.

What does the combat record of Iraqi pilots have to do with anything? All it takes is one lucky guy in the right place at the right time.

bradusa_2003
Also keep in mind they barried all of them in the sand during the second gulf war (mig-25's).

And this means what? They were found in the sand 11 years later so they couldn't have shot down an F-18 in 1991? By the way it's spelled "buried."

[bradusa_2003]

"What Ever".... Just keep in mind sometimes well respected Writers and Journalists are wrong. Thanks for the spelling lesson but it was really un-called for since I am sure you have made a typo or 2 in your life. I was going to read the book but your rudness has turned me off to ever getting it off the bookshelf again "thanks Again". And so you know maybe you should read up on the F-18 the BVR (beyond visual range) is better than the mig-25 and most Western aircraft BVR is alot better than their Russian counterparts.

[Edited by bradusa_2003 on 31st January 2006 at 18:31]