F-14

[FoverF]

The biggest problem with trying to keep the F-14 in service is the fact that congress ordered all of the production tooling to be destroyed, so no-one cold ever build them (or their major components) again, even if they wanted to.

Just a bull**** political move, so someone important could look good by saving their favorite program, or get more business for the company that builds planes in their riding. It was a dumb move made by people who just want to further their careers.

[Pucara70]

Originally posted by FoverF
The biggest problem with trying to keep the F-14 in service is the fact that congress ordered all of the production tooling to be destroyed, so no-one cold ever build them (or their major components) again, even if they wanted to.

Just a bull**** political move, so someone important could look good by saving their favorite program, or get more business for the company that builds planes in their riding. It was a dumb move made by people who just want to further their careers.

Are you sure of that order?. If so, I agree with you, it was a bull.....for political reasons. It will be a pity, because some countries would like to buy an improved version of the Tomcat.

[FoverF]

Well, the F-14 has been around for a good 30 years or so, and only one other country ever bought it, so I don't think too many people are interested in it anyways, (except the USN).

[bring_it_on]

i doubt any other country would buy the f-14.....but it is an amazing fighter jet specially with the phoenix/f-14 combo......

[Trogdore-The-Burninator]

http://www.flightjournal.com/article...8/f14f18_1.asp

This is the article that argues that the Tomcat is superior to the E/F

[avon1944]

> bradusa_2003
> Superhornet at first the more I read about it the aircraft is not that bad of
> a plane.
It falls short of the expectations of the Navy. Yes, it (the F/A-18C/D) can bring back more weight on a carrier landing than the E/F, that is a legitimate claim. Most other claims come with limitations! The E/F has greater thrust from its engines but due to the weight increase, the E/F has a lower T/W ratio than the C/D! The intakes on the E/F are more stealthy than the C/D but, all this stealth is lost when you place pylons and weapons on the plane! The E/F has more range than the C/D, yes but a good deal of this range comes from the fact that it uses larger auxillary fuel tanks! McDD told Congress the C/D could not use the larger fuel tanks but the GAO found a picture of a Navy C/D landing with the larger fuel tanks. Canada's CF/A-18C/D's use the larger fuel tanks. The "recon" pod used by the E/F is still not as good (in providing sharp resolution) as TARPS used by the F-14!!
There is a definite reason the F/A-18E/F has no other customer other than the US Navy! The US Marines have refuse to buy it! That should tell you something?

> the F-18 superhornet was designed to do both, yes it does lack in range for ship
> protection in the carrier fleets
The US Navy no longer will contest the "outer" air defense zone! Without the outer air defense zone the escorts are in more peril.


> As far as the F-14 being the only aircraft being able to shoot the pheonix missle,
> well the Navy didnt loose much its not very acurrate anyway and obscolete.
Ooooooh yes they did. As I just said we can no longer defend the outer air zone. The Phoenix Missile is not the dogfight missile the Slammer is but, it is a fire and forget missile and it can be used ranges as close as the middle of the BVR arena.

On Jan 07, 1981 the F-14A in question fired a single AIM-54A against four MiG-23BNs flying in a tight formation. The missile is confirmed as having hit the leading MiG, blotting it out of the skies, and causing sufficient damage for other two to crash seconds later. The fourth MiG apparently came away alright.

Here are some statisitcs on the Iran Iraq War Concerning F-14's
CONFIRMED F-14 KILLS
Confirmed Kills ______ 123!
Unconfirmed Kills ____ 5
Damage/Close Calls ___ 8

CONFIRMED AIM-54 MISSILE KILLS
Confirmed AIM-54 Kills ______ 53
Unconfirmed AIM-54 Kills ____ 5
Damage/Close AIM-54 Calls ___ 3

CONFIRMED CLAIMED-KILLS OF F-14's BY THE IrAF
Confirmed Kills ______ 3
Unconfirmed Kills ____ 9
Damage/Close Calls ___ 1

That is a 40:1 kill ratio!

> As far as the Superhornet not being able to compete with 4th and fith generation
> planes, well thats yet to be seen
We already know the E/F is not as good a dogfighter as the C/D! I read the GAO report once (I wish I had copied it) and it states the E/F is slower in acceration, deceleration, instantaneous rate of turn, continuous rate of turn and rate of climb!

> AVON1944's comment about the navy not taking care of the F-14's like the airforce
> took care of the F-15 should keep in mind the F-15 didnt have to slam down on
> carrier decks
When you get through with excuses, the question is, "did the Navy take care of the F-14 the way the USAF took care of the F-15?" The answer is very binary, either yes or no and, in this case the answer is NO! The F-14 is not being retired because of structural problems, it is being retired because most of the "black boxes" do not have the reliability the black boxes on the F-15 has! Therefore it cost more to operate the F-14 than it does the F-15. Yes the F-15 has a constant temperature and constant humidity air cooling system, which helps the reliability of the entire aircraft. The Navy did not provide for this on the Tomcat. There was a lot of exchange talk between Grumman and McDonald Aircraft. Similiar HUDs, HOTAS, etc..


> djelfa
> I would have thought this would have made it easier to land.
The initial problem was the TF-30 engines the F-14 was stuck with. Then there is the problem that when planes are parked on either side of the landing area, the F-14 has as little as 10 feet between the wingtips and the parked aircraft. At 150 mph this a little "hairy"! Add the night, some wind, ice and or snow (in the Norwegian Sea), few want that experience.


> jerre
> even get a Wizzo to watch your back
Is the Navy changing from RIO to WSO like the USAF??

> I'm not sure about this, but I don't believe the USN F14 shot down any MiG29
> or Su27.
No but they have shot down the following aircraft during the Iran/Iraq War.
Su-20, Su-22M-2K, Su-22M-3K, F-6 5FS (#1),
MiG-21RF, MiG-23BN, MiG-23MF, MiG-25PD, MiG-25RBS, MiG-27 (#2)
F-104G, RF-4C, F.1EQ, F.1EQ-4, F.1EQ-5, Super Etendard, AM.39 Exocet, Tu-22B
Mi-17, SA.321GV, H-6D, C.601

#1 The F-6 is a Chinese produced version of one of the MiG.'s

#2 A very of the MiG.-23


> FoverF
> The biggest problem with trying to keep the F-14 in service is the fact that
> congress ordered all of the production tooling to be destroyed
No, it wasn't Congress this time. The light weight fighter mafia convince secretary of the navy as part of the condition in dispute between the USN and Grumman Aircraft, was to pay a larger portion of the Tomcat-21 and the strike version of the Tomcat than the Navy had originally intended to pay.... under the conditions that when finish with the conversion of the F-14A's To F-14D's to destroy all the tooling used to manufacture the F-14.


> bring_it_on
> i doubt any other country would buy the f-14.....but it is an amazing fighter jet
> specially with the phoenix/f-14 combo......
I think if the fans of F-14's had done more to inform the military aircraft world of the record piled up by the IIRAF. A 40:1 kill ratio is something to boast about!


> Trogdore-The-Burninator
> This is the article that argues that the Tomcat is superior to the E/F
If there had been a "fly-off" between the F-14-21 and the F/A-18E/F the competition would have been rather one sided. To make bad matters worst, the F-14-21 was cheaper than the F/A-18E/F! In fact according to a Boeing "internal memo", the F-15E can do everything the F/A-18E/F does better except land on a carrier. The F-15E cost about thirty percent less than the F/A-18E/F!!

Adrian

[bradusa_2003]

avon1944: I would like to know where you got your figures on the F-14 kill ratio in the iran/iraqi war? from the articles that I have read nobody believes that Iran even flew the F-14's in any combat mission to them they were to valuble to lose, since they had no access to spare parts or weapons for them, due to sanctions by the US. Not to say if they did fly that wouldnt have happned I am not disagreeing with on its a good aircraft or even that its better the the superhornet" it is" but its job is no longer required by the navy. And I hate to disagree with you but the F-14 is being retired due to Structural problems over 50 percent of the fleet is unsafe to fly now as far as the humidity thing on the f-15 as compared to the f-14 you may be right but that doesnt necessaraly mean THE NAVY DIDNT TAKE CARE OF THE PLANE, remembr the F-14 first flew in 1968 or 1969 compared to the F-15 first flew in 1972, it may not have been availible or the navy may not have know they needed then. The Marines didnt by it becuase they always end up with the left overs and were afraid if they did they would be left out of the F-35 deal not becuase they didnt like it, they couldnt afford it and their current stock of f-18d are in realtivly good shape and can continue on for a while they have been upgraded. The superhornet also take less people to work on in the field ask any navy aircraft mechanic. Nobody has purchased it yet becuase its still a relativly new aircraft and not cheap I disagree with who ever said its more expensive than an f-15e considering base on a superhortnet is around 35 million and vase on an f-15e is about 42 to 45 million. No matter what anyone says its totally different fron its smaller brother the f-18c. as far as the iranians or the iraqis confirming their kills in the war its very unlikely that both airforces at the time had enough planes capable of combat or pilots to even get close to a 40:1 kill ratio. Again I like the F-14 and I dont think the F-18e/f is better than it but it is capable of handling the 4th and 5th generations of planes we are facing now and once the FA-22 gets in service it will be very unlikely it will face much air to air combat in the future since most awacs planes are controlled by the airforce they tend to send all the fights towards their planes anyway.